Vienna's "best" song, from a technical standpoint

[Fred]

A while back a Facebook "friend" with a lot of interest in art and music, and who likes to start long discussions among his hundreds of FBFs, posed an interesting question. Essentially, it was to post an example of a song that proves your favorite musical artist is a great songwriter. Of course I was going to champion Vienna in the discussion, but the question gave me pause. I love every note she's ever written (that I've heard), but what song would best convince others? I realized that a lot of Vienna's songs have elaborate structures that owe more to classical music than pop, or rely as much on great piano composition and playing as on songcraft, and decided that to best make my point I had to avoid those and go simple. Even among those that stick close to standard pop conventions, there is a lot of choice. In the end I surprised myself and went with Recessional. It's not one that started out as one of my favorites, but it's been growing on me slowly, and by now I would have to say it's in that group. In terms of the question I was answering, I thought it worked well because it tells a powerful story in standard verse-chorus-verse structure, and the words and music are particularly well balanced, neither overwhelming the other. (The last verse and chorus are variant, musically, but I think that's fine within the conventions of pop music.) Was I right? Should I have gone with something that was still close to pop structure but maybe more up-tempo or up-volume (City Hall? Homecoming?), a song that's from a different genre than pop (Grandmother Song? Antebellum?), one that wears its classical roots on its sleeve (Pontchartrain?), or one that just tears up the rule book altogether (Radio?)? What do you think?

[terraphim86]

Oh wow, what a question.

From a technical standpoint....I'd have to go with "Love Turns 40" or "Radio." The former displays excellent depth and variation and some sweet jazz motifs. The latter, with it's several "movements," is an emotional journey through several genres of music.

[aaparallel]

Recessional's a good choice. VT said she's proud of the lyrics, which were the successful result of deciding to write a poem before setting it to music. The music fits the words very well. I love the dissonant chord at the end of each verse (at the second "maybe it means nothing," for example). The chord just kind of taps me on the shoulder and make me go "Huh? What just happened, exactly?".

I wouldn't say "Ponchartrain" is has a classical feel or that "Radio" breaks all the rules. Both are excellent examples of how much Vienna has grown as a songwriter though. The lyrics of the former make up a poem as well, a very eerie and sad one. About the music, she mentioned in the Q&A that she symbolically played black keys in one hand and white keys in the other. I've played around with that. It produces those interesting chords you hear. "Radio" has a pretty solid structure, but the content in each section is so clever and lively that the song stands out. I love the frantic instrumental section leading up to the calm bridge (which I would say represents blissful ignorance). Lots of juxtaposition of sweet/calm/happy and unsettling/urgent/fearful throughout the song. The verses are vivid in text and unsettling in sound.

Actually, I think those two songs represent how far VT wants a song to go musically and lyrically. She worked very hard to write them, and chose heavy topics to illustrate. I would think that a song that truly captures her songwriting ability is one that she wrote rather quickly or instinctively. That said, I'd like to suggest "Blue Caravan." VT started singing it just randomly. It's such a brilliant song. Aeolian mode! Music that effectively conveys movement to someplace without really going anywhere. The swells and releases..."Oh he was a beautiful fiction..." is set to a very pretty musical gesture that makes you stop and listen and think. The lyrics are fantastic and deceptively simple. My poet friend keeps raving about them: "The end of each verse makes one question the meaning of the song all over again!" The has the potential to grow, since the structure and meaning of the song are so flexible.

[Reileen]

Echoing terraphim86's sentiment of "Oh wow, what a question." Like Fred, I pretty much love the hell out of practically of all of Vienna's works, for varying reasons.

I would think that a song that truly captures her songwriting ability is one that she wrote rather quickly or instinctively. That said, I'd like to suggest "Blue Caravan."

Pushing that thought further (and possibly much to Vienna's embarrassment -- sorry!), I'd even go so far to suggest Nothing Left For Us to Find. She wrote in one hour what most people couldn't do in a year. I really want an unofficial acoustic recording of that song, like she did for the Lake version of Gravity.

I do think that Recessional's a good overall choice, however. It's not as heavy as Pontchartrain or Radio, but it's still complex in a number of ways.

[aaparallel]

Pushing that thought further (and possibly much to Vienna's embarrassment -- sorry!), I'd even go so far to suggest Nothing Left For Us to Find. She wrote in one hour what most people couldn't do in a year. I really want an unofficial acoustic recording of that song, like she did for the Lake version of Gravity.

I was going to mention this song! Just that it's not performed regularly and there's not a good recording to share with someone who wants evidence of VT's songwriting. VT said in the video that she doesn't know what it means, but it makes perfect sense to me! Which is why it's brilliant. I think of it as the (sort of) apocalyptic aftermath of Antebellum, which she wrote not too long before "Nothing Left For Us to Find."

[Fred]

Pushing that thought further (and possibly much to Vienna's embarrassment -- sorry!), I'd even go so far to suggest Nothing Left For Us to Find. She wrote in one hour what most people couldn't do in a year. I really want an unofficial acoustic recording of that song, like she did for the Lake version of Gravity.

I was going to mention this song! Just that it's not performed regularly and there's not a good recording to share with someone who wants evidence of VT's songwriting. VT said in the video that she doesn't know what it means, but it makes perfect sense to me! Which is why it's brilliant. I think of it as the (sort of) apocalyptic aftermath of Antebellum, which she wrote not too long before "Nothing Left For Us to Find."

I thought Nothing Left... was incredible for a quick toss-off when I first heard it. Who's got enough talent to do that?!!

re: Pontchartrain, I hear 20th Century classical (atonal/12-tone/dissonant) chamber music, and Renaissance choral music, in it, just as I hear theater music in Antebellum.

Let's see if some more folks chime in with other candidates. Too quiet around here.

[Fred]

...VT said she's proud of the lyrics [of Recessional], which were the successful result of deciding to write a poem before setting it to music...

Interesting. Maybe my current proclivities as more-of-a-folkie-less-of-a-rocker are showing. Folk songs tend to start with words and add music, and the meaning of the song is usually not particularly in need of interpretation--it's right there in the words. Woody Guthrie left behind volumes of lyrics without music, that other performers have been setting to their own music ever since. Did I gravitate to Recessional because it's more word-oriented than most of Vienna's songs? Certainly it's no folk song, but maybe it contains fewer layers of meaning than some of her songs; it's a love song, or a breakup song, depending on whether you listen frontwards or backwards. Vienna said in one of her more memorable blog posts on music that she hears the music first, and then the words, when she's a listener, and I would agree, but I find that more and more I keep listening until I get the words, and in the end they matter, more than they used to.

[Cooler Near The Lake]

This looks like the kind of question that will probably generate as many different answers as the number of people asked. My own thoughts on the subject are pretty much along Fred's lines.

Radio or Pontchartrain are definitely hard to beat when it comes to complexity. (Yes, Pontchartrain has elements of classical music in it, some passages reminding me of Tchaikovsky' s Piano Concerto #1. ) But Harbor, to which an own thread has been devoted, also comes to mind, or I Don't Feel So Well with its varied instrumental voices.

And yes, Recessional would be an excellent overall choice - it has been one of my top favorites within Vienna's work ever since first listening and still never fails to move me deeply, by her way of storytelling and how she generates and dissipates musical tension.

But I came up with something closer to Vienna's musical roots: Eric's Song. For me, technically great songwriting starts with great lyrics, and I guess many readers will agree that this one contains some of the most beautiful lines she has ever written ("... carve us as instruments that play the music of life..." and more ). With its graciously arching melody the song vividly evokes the image of a stream, swelling to a mighty river as it cascades over rocks, gaining more and more strength.( At least it does so in my poor little head.) Vienna effects this with nothing more than her piano and her voice, no frills at all, starting in a rather subdued mode and pushing her singing capability to the very limit towards the end. Now take the lyrics and the music together, and what you see is a relationship growing, or two people growing on each other: from simple amazement of having found THE ONE person, cautiously groping forward at the beginning, accepting the partner with all his/her mistakes and being accepted in return, towards the highest joy and fulfillment. If brilliant songwriting is defined by lyrics and music perfectly matching and complementing each other, and if you want to top it off with a masterly performance - this is it.

Or take Shasta, which is great songwriting in it's own right, but this time for a quite different reason, thus illustrating Vienna's broad scope. Severe
internal moral conflicts are intentionally contrasted with a "happy" tune and arrangement.

Oops, one song asked for and seven mentioned in this post alone (no limitation to those intended)... maybe no wonder, given the outstanding quality of Vienna's work. Isn't it great that different people love quite different things about Vienna's music?

Cooler

[tanthalas]

If the technical goodness of a song can be measured simply by the magnitude of the chills that went down my spine while listening to a song for the first (or second, or tenth, or hundredth) time, St. Stephen's Cross takes the cake for me.

That said, Eric's Song was the song that first made me fall in love with Vienna, and it has stood the test of time throughout her evolution as a songwriter and artist. It may not be musically or lyrically complex (not that I'd know about that anyway), but sometimes, getting something right in a simple and elegant fashion is worth all the more, even from a technical standpoint.

[Fred]

I'm glad I've kicked up a little discussion, and hope others continue to join in.

Cooler and tanthalas, I totally agree with you about Eric's Song. Vienna said somewhere she wrote it at 19, which totally floors me. Who has that much talent at 19? As far as that line of lyrics goes, I keep a slip of paper with the verse containing it paperclipped to the first page in the TMAV book (since I would never sully the book by taping or gluing it in; Vienna inscribed the other side of the page very nicely a couple of weeks ago, but I don't think she noticed my addition). Although the song's not on that CD, I happen to think that one verse is the best small, isolated example of her lyric writing, and it's so true. Yet another example, of many, in which Vienna has written a love song that can be taken on another level. That's what all experience does; it carves us as instruments that play the music of life.

I suppose if you were to take it out of context, without knowing all about Vienna's music, you could misinterpret Eric's Song as an almost embarrassingly confessional love song from Vienna to someone named Eric, but knowing Vienna's other music you realize that it could be from her to someone not named Eric or someone totally imaginary, or it could be from a real or imaginary Eric to his lover, or it could be something else. Instead of worrying about that, I just concentrate on the lyrics and music as we find them, and I react just as you have.

I've never heard it played live. Maybe someday.

[Fred]

So the result of this experiment is that if you ask 6 Vienna Teng fans what they think her best constructed song is, you will get 7 answers, and good reasons for all of them. Cool. What's interesting is that these are not all from among Vienna's most performed songs or from her "big" songs that go at the key points in concerts. I'll bet if I had asked the same group for their single favorite song (a very hard thing for a serious fan) I would have gotten a rather different set of responses. There are many ways of valuing music, and for me which way is at the forefront at any given time depends on my mood and externals such as time of day, season, setting, etc. Beethoven was once asked whether music should be appreciated with the head or the heart, and his reply was to the effect that the best music hits you in the gut.

Recessional - 1 vote
Love Turns 40 - 1/2
Radio - 1/2
Blue Caravan - 1
Nothing Left for Us To Find - 1
Eric's Song - 1
St. Stephen's Cross - 1

Also considered:
City Hall
Homecoming
Grandmother Song
Antebellum
Pontchartrain
Harbor
I Don't Feel So Well
Shasta

[tanthalas]

What's interesting is that these are not all from among Vienna's most performed songs or from her "big" songs that go at the key points in concerts.

Keep in mind that you had qualified your survey with "from a technical standpoint". If you had simply asked, "What song would you use to introduce people to Vienna?" I think you would get quite a different set of results - and they would probably align more to the usual suspects on setlists.

That said, I tend to introduce people to Vienna's music depending on what I know of the person's preferences/tastes in music... so there tends to be no one good answer for that either.

[Fred]

What's interesting is that these are not all from among Vienna's most performed songs or from her "big" songs that go at the key points in concerts.

Keep in mind that you had qualified your survey with "from a technical standpoint". If you had simply asked, "What song would you use to introduce people to Vienna?" I think you would get quite a different set of results - and they would probably align more to the usual suspects on setlists.

That said, I tend to introduce people to Vienna's music depending on what I know of the person's preferences/tastes in music... so there tends to be no one good answer for that either.

Absolutely! In general, without knowing anything about the person, if I were asked to show someone what Vienna's music is like, I'd probably use the Gravity video. And if I didn't have video, then probably Harbor. Her "big songs", in other words. That's why I thought this particular question was so interesting.

[Kalenabear]

I'm the least technical person I know when it comes to music (it's all about the feeeeling, man!), but this is indeed an interesting topic. Thanks for piquing our interests, Fred!

I was the one who asked about Antebellum for the Formspring Q & A! I'm always fascinated when song content reflects or is informed by other components of the piece. Really interesting to see Vienna's answers about Decade and One...but, um, could somebody explain how Pontratrain is reflexive, like Antebellum? Black and white keys = black and white memories, photographs, or...?

My vote goes to Recessional. Brilliant poetry, sequencing...everything. But, I'm kind of surprised that nobody brought up 'Between'. *Breaks out Scot's song notes* "Vienna also says she wrote this during a 'clever phase' of hers. Being about a third "thing" between two, it, of course, had to be in 3/4 time, with 3 verses, with 3 voices in the chorus, the main one "between" the other two..." Very deliberate, very technical writing. So brilliant.

Okay, okay...one more tally mark, though, for 'Harbor' just because my piano teacher is going over it with me now. You don't need my teacher's amazing credits to appreciate this song, but let me just say that she called 'Harbor' "very sophisticated writing". She was referring to the meter changes, of course. A newbie pianist, I asked what was the point in shifting back and forth in metering. She responded about pulses, beats, and tempos...that the meter changes gave off a more spontaneous feel, one of freedom. Of course, we know that 'Harbor' is about sailing our seas, exploration, liberation. Again, song content matches song structure!

Tanthalas: Y'know, I'll admit that Eric's Song doesn't get played too much in my playlist. I think the poetry is top-notch...the lyrics are just beautiful. However, there's no hook (correct me if I'm wrong) so I get a little lost with it. Does that make me a pop-snob? :p That is to say, I think it can be *too* poetic that I concentrate so much on the words and think about how VT has pieced everything together. Before I know it, I'm untangling all the lovely phrases and the song's over. I'm a VT fan because her songs are multi-layered in meaning and technical craft. They often take welcome repeat plays to really understand what she's talking about; but this one throws off the flow for me for some reason. Hmm. Still think it's wonderful and it'll eventually get it's due time in my earbuds!

Ahh, there are too many good songs to choose from!

[aaparallel]

...could somebody explain how Pontratrain is reflexive, like Antebellum? Black and white keys = black and white memories, photographs, or...?

My guess is that the black and white keys represent opposite sides of the "line" in "who drew the line between you and me." Life and death.

I've had the opening of "Harbor" down for a while. I should get to the rest of the song now. The transition part between chorus and verse with the accents is quite fun to play. That song is a technical masterpiece.