Vienna's twitter on health care and humor in politics.

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Ang Mo
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Vienna's twitter on health care and humor in politics.

Postby Ang Mo » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:05 am

I have to be honest. I think Glen Beck is an idiot. I really love the way Stephen Colbert shows just what an idiot this guy is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grp0EByrLoE

How could any Republican or conservative think that this guy has enough brains to hold two soda crackers together is beyond me.

Anyhow I was reading Vienna's twitter on health care. It is so sad we live in a country where people are so violent and ignorant that they are willing to use tactics of bringing guns to town halls and threaten and shout down anyone with the desire to discuss having a "public option". By siding with the insurance companies, they actually hurt their own self interests of obtaining affordable health care. It is amazing, fewer and fewer people are insured each year but the Insurance company profits go higher and higher every year. These redneck paranoid people, with such a blind hatred for government, who are against the "public option" are siding up with these insurance companies that are essentially trying to make sure that health care only exists for the extremely wealthy.

I read a fascinating article in the Denver paper regarding the Canadian form of insurance. I think if people read this, they might be enlightened as to why you don't see people from Canada sneaking into the United States. The Canadians have to guard their borders to keep Americans out of their country. They have superior health care to the United States.

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_12523427
--the only adults who are never depressed: chuckleheads, California surfers, and fundamentalist Christians who believe they have had a personal encounter with Jesus and are saved once and for all. Would you trade your depression to become any of these?

Walking Stranger
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Re: Vienna's twitter on health care and humor in politics.

Postby Walking Stranger » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:29 pm

Ang Mo wrote:It is amazing, fewer and fewer people are insured each year but the Insurance company profits go higher and higher every year. These redneck paranoid people, with such a blind hatred for government, who are against the "public option" are siding up with these insurance companies that are essentially trying to make sure that health care only exists for the extremely wealthy.


All this pyramidal-hierarchy-system-and-buy-our-brains-and-throw-away world most of us live in to feed our always-hungry-walking-stomachs is everywhere.
Just do some googling and find out that some CEO in some company has an annual wages with a lengthy number : this guy alone is like a bank !
Think about the n++, the big boss and all the traders : they got extra money after feeding the fire of this insane bankruptcy, and the little people who work in the customers service in those banks working like hell to reassure customers not to leave and close their accounts, they did not got a penny !
And at the bottom, you have at one hand thousands of lay-offs, people striving to keep their jobs or to find one so as to fill the fridge, pay the bills, whereas at the other hand, some guys in public or private organizations manage to make money beyond ethics questions, like some unreliable guy in some logic country, once on his presidential throne, decided to rise his own wages ...

There is a Lao saying my mum taught me :

HAY GNAY LON / HAY NOY BO TEM
Quand une grande jarre déborde, une petite jarre n'est pas pleine.
When a big jar brims over, a little jar is never full.
Last edited by Walking Stranger on Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fred » Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:45 pm

This is just one person's opinion, but I would just as soon leave the healthcare debate on Facebook (if we have to have it within the VT fan community at all!) and talk about music on the Forum. I'm not quite sure why Vienna wants to incite this debate in her FB/TW posts, because I can't see how doing so could possibly increase her popularity. Some fan on one side or the other is going to lose it and quit being a fan at some point; no new fans will be made. The civility level so far has been better than at congressional townhalls, but just barely.

It's not hard to figure out who I am on FB (I don't use pseudonyms or monikers), so by now y'all know where I stand on healthcare. But I'm not bringing it here. The main theme of the Forum has been to celebrate and promote Vienna's music (answering her TW comment about: why the heck are we so polite to her), and I'd hate to see that change. Again, as I said, just one person's opinion.

tanthalas
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Postby tanthalas » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:59 pm

Fred wrote:I'm not quite sure why Vienna wants to incite this debate in her FB/TW posts, because I can't see how doing so could possibly increase her popularity. Some fan on one side or the other is going to lose it and quit being a fan at some point; no new fans will be made.


Simple answer: increasing her popularity is not the goal here. :)

rahau
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Postby rahau » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:53 pm

Actually, I think it would - or at least should - increase her popularity. Here she is, in the middle of a tour, and she is learning all she can about health care. Last summer, during the middle of another busy tour, she spent time reading the farm bill. She didn't just read about it. She read the actual legislation. Quite a stunning contrast to the self-absorbed artists we are accustomed to.

Besides - we've had one or two other political discussions on the forum, and it hasn't seemed to hurt her popularity. :wink:

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Postby Fred » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:23 pm

tanthalas wrote:
Fred wrote:I'm not quite sure why Vienna wants to incite this debate in her FB/TW posts, because I can't see how doing so could possibly increase her popularity. Some fan on one side or the other is going to lose it and quit being a fan at some point; no new fans will be made.


Simple answer: increasing her popularity is not the goal here. :)


Tanthalas,
I'm sure you're right; I'm sure Vienna is genuinely interested in this issue from an intellectual standpoint. She says so. The problem is that Vienna taps into much more than just her fans' knowledge when she makes these posts. The healthcare debate is more emotional than intellectual, and is not just (I'm almost tempted to say, not really) about healthcare. The true believers on both sides have set this issue up as a test of strength (right wing) or test of faith (left wing) of the Obama administration. I know; I belong to different online communities dominated by both sides, and I read their mail. (My real-life encounters are less balanced.) Leftwingers are out to prove that the Conservative movement has lost its mojo and banish the Republicans and the ghost of Reagan to the hinterlands for the foreseeable future. Rightwingers are out to turn Obama into Jimmy Carter, as it was formulated by Paul Krugman in the Times a couple of weeks ago, and then return to power in '10 and '12. The sides have gathered their forces at this point mostly because it is Obama's first major policy initiative. The rhetoric on both sides is jacked way, way up. Robber barons! Death panels! All I'm asking, since Vienna's fans are clearly split on the issue, and they are no more likely to be cool and dispassionate about it than other people, is whether it is wise to go there. When I come here I would much prefer for us all to check our guns at the door, as it were, and stand around the campfire [either an indoor campfire, or a mixed metaphor] singing Kumbaya. (Or Soon Love Soon!)
Fred :)
Last edited by Fred on Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Fred » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:38 pm

rahau wrote:Actually, I think it would - or at least should - increase her popularity. Here she is, in the middle of a tour, and she is learning all she can about health care. Last summer, during the middle of another busy tour, she spent time reading the farm bill. She didn't just read about it. She read the actual legislation. Quite a stunning contrast to the self-absorbed artists we are accustomed to.

Besides - we've had one or two other political discussions on the forum, and it hasn't seemed to hurt her popularity. :wink:


Rahau,
Yes, it is wonderful to follow an artist who has both the commitment and the mental equipment to deeply study public policy. The thing that concerns me is that this is no farm bill discussion. People across the country are getting really angry at each other over this, and as we all know it's really easy to say something really stupid that you regret later online. I'm not in favor of censorship, of course, just self-restraint.
Fred :)

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Postby Walking Stranger » Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:31 am

Fred wrote:Yes, it is wonderful to follow an artist who has both the commitment and the mental equipment to deeply study public policy. The thing that concerns me is that this is no farm bill discussion. People across the country are getting really angry at each other over this, and as we all know it's really easy to say something really stupid that you regret later online. I'm not in favor of censorship, of course, just self-restraint.
Fred :)


We could not ask Ze Singing Hobbit to be just a singing parrot or a singing bird if she somewhat feels some political issues make her think.
We could as readers of VT Forum only be aware of the visible part of the iceberg of her personality here.
I guess so many questions make her do some intellectual study, and doing this, she might be in the process of her own investigation like this researcher :

"The Cosmic Serpent: DNA and the Origins of Knowledge" - Jeremy Narby - Phœnix, 1999.

[p. 140] "This is perhaps one of the most important things I learned during this investigation: We see what we believe, and not just the contrary; and to change what we see, it is sometimes necessary to change what we believe."

If some artists like Léon Spilliaert found out in his process of painting that silence is like a wise answer to all of this chaos, as a singer and a deep thought soul and traveling-around-the-world human being, how could VT remain silent, how all of this present world she lives in and its extreme injustices and sad facts could not influence her mind if she just wants to learn more about them and try to find out the core and the source of problems ? How all this questioning and own initiative investigation could not be felt, could not inspire her in her lyrics ?
As the painter Joseph Stamboulian - born in Marseille in 1937 in a kemps (camp) - once said : an artist is like a sponge.
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Postby Ang Mo » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:09 am

This is just one person's opinion, but I would just as soon leave the healthcare debate on Facebook (if we have to have it within the VT fan community at all!) and talk about music on the Forum. I'm not quite sure why Vienna wants to incite this debate in her FB/TW posts, because I can't see how doing so could possibly increase her popularity. Some fan on one side or the other is going to lose it and quit being a fan at some point; no new fans will be made. The civility level so far has been better than at congressional townhalls, but just barely.


I think you are somewhat over dramatic but you are entitled to your opinion and you have stated it. Thank you.

My ultimate question is why there is even a debate about the "public option"? I thought the conservatives believed in the principle of a free market where a consumer could make a choice. In the current debate the conservatives feel that only a private sector option should be available. My understanding of a free market is where the consumer can decide whether to stay in a private sector offering or they could go with the public option. It would be their own choice. I always thought competition helps bring cost down as well. It should be left up to the individual to make their choice of what they think will suit them best. Another question I have is why these Senators and Congressman who oppose the public option seem to be quite happy with their government insurance and seem pretty healthy too. They don't seem to worry about going before those death panels they mention or are worried about whether they get to choose the doctor of their choice. Maybe the reason why they oppose the idea of a public option is because they feel that the huge donations they take from insurance corporations might dry up if they vote for a public option? It is a question I have pondered.
--the only adults who are never depressed: chuckleheads, California surfers, and fundamentalist Christians who believe they have had a personal encounter with Jesus and are saved once and for all. Would you trade your depression to become any of these?

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Postby tanthalas » Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:40 am

Part of the problem is that both sides don't understand each other - it's mostly a failure of communication (and for some people, this failure is really just a choice to remain close-minded more than anything).

So the best we can really do is to try our best to be as open-minded as possible and to see both sides of the issue and really try to understand what's going on. Or all sides, since there really aren't just two here.

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Postby Fred » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:28 pm

Ok, I give up. I see there's a little flame war going on over on FB on this topic. If it spreads here I'm sure the good Admins and Mods of this forum will take down any nasty posts pretty quickly. I promise I won't be part of it.

This set me thinking, and wandering OT. (Fair warning: off-topic ramblings follow. But this is the Cafe so that's ok, right?)

Musing on Grandmother Song, it seems to me that Vienna is ambivalent. She is not willing to take her grandmother's advice on her career choice, but recognizes the wisdom that the old woman has gained over a long life. (If she simply rejected her grandmother's ideas outright, why write a song?) My grandmother was born in the Old South at the tail end of the 19th Century. Although we loved each other, we didn't share many views on politics or society--to say the least. But she was wise in many ways. One thing she was wise about was how to behave in society. She said, "Never discuss politics or religion with company [meaning, in a social setting]." This idea actually used to be pretty prevalent, believe it or not. Nowadays, when people use the internet to shout invective at total strangers at the drop of a hat, this old idea may seem impossibly quaint. But is it really? Another old custom (before my time, too) was gathering in the town square to listen to someone stand on a soapbox and declare a position on a topic of the day, followed by debate, sometimes raucous. I wonder if, on the internet, everyplace has to be the town square, and no place can be the parlor where you drink tea with "company". What do you think?

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Postby Ang Mo » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:54 pm

We live in a democracy Fred and people can make choices. For example, you could have easily ignored my post and had your parlor atmosphere you crave so much by simply skipping this particular thread but you chose not to. By posting to this thread you merely indicate to me that you did not really seek the parlor atmosphere. There are over a thousand members on the forum. Only five people have responded on this thread, the rest simply ignore it and post on the threads they might have interest in so I think the parlor atmosphere is available to everyone on the forum. An individual can control their own destiny by selecting which threads they want to see and comment on. It is called "Free Agency" so to speak.
--the only adults who are never depressed: chuckleheads, California surfers, and fundamentalist Christians who believe they have had a personal encounter with Jesus and are saved once and for all. Would you trade your depression to become any of these?

Fred
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Postby Fred » Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:48 pm

Ang Mo wrote:We live in a democracy Fred and people can make choices. For example, you could have easily ignored my post and had your parlor atmosphere you crave so much by simply skipping this particular thread but you chose not to. By posting to this thread you merely indicate to me that you did not really seek the parlor atmosphere. There are over a thousand members on the forum. Only five people have responded on this thread, the rest simply ignore it and post on the threads they might have interest in so I think the parlor atmosphere is available to everyone on the forum. An individual can control their own destiny by selecting which threads they want to see and comment on. It is called "Free Agency" so to speak.

Not worried about you. Worried about a couple of soreheads on FB. Hope they stay out there. That's all. :)

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Postby rahau » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:30 am

Fred wrote:Not worried about you. Worried about a couple of soreheads on FB. Hope they stay out there. That's all. :)


Don't worry, Fellow Beatnik. I'm sure the soreheads will stay on FB. Even if we have a discussion on this board, I'm sure it will be more civil than those found elsewhere. Surely you realize by now that anyone who appreciates Vienna is much more intelligent, thoughtful, insightful, and civilized than the average person? :)

There seems to be only one genuine sorehead over at FB, and it appears he's not really a fan. No true Warm Stranger would abandon Vienna over a political or philosophical difference. If they do, they're not worth the title.

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Postby Reileen » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:59 am

I have stayed out of that FB discussion for the most part, but I have to admit that I really got a lot out of the one article she posted (...I think it was her, anyway) about the high costs of health care in McAllen, Texas. So thank you, Vienna, for that! :)
"You've made us swear our souls to you
And blamed us for your poisoned grace."


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